Wednesday, March 16, 2016

homework and exercises - Will "A" experience max static friction if "A" is connected to "B" which is on the verge of slipping?


I'm going to explain the question by stating a problem.


Homework Problem


Consider this system:


figure 1


How big horizontal force F should be, so that the mass m1 would be on the verge of slipping upwards? (Friction coefficients between objects is μs but m3 has no friction with the ground. Ropes and the pulley are perfect ie. weightless, frictionless, non-streching).



My Attempt


Firstly I drew important forces:


enter image description here


m1 and m2 are not moving on m3. Therefore all the objects have the same acceleration a which is easily found: ax=FΣm ay=0 Now write equations of motion for m1 and m2: [m1,x]:TcosθN1sinθfs1cosθ=FΣmm1 [m1,y]:Tsinθ+N1cosθfs1sinθm1g=0 [m2,x]:Tsinθ+N2cosθfs2sinθ=FΣmm2 [m2,y]:Tcosθ+N2sinθ+fs2cosθm2g=0 Since m1 is on the verge of slipping upwards, fs1=μsN1 and re-write equations: [m1,x]:TcosθN1sinθμsN1cosθ=FΣmm1 [m1,y]:Tsinθ+N1cosθμsN1sinθm1g=0 [m2,x]:Tsinθ+N2cosθfs2sinθ=FΣmm2 [m2,y]:Tcosθ+N2sinθ+fs2cosθm2g=0 At this point we are left with 4 equations and 5 unknowns (T, N1, N2, fs2, F).


Now I'm wondering if this is an indeterminate problem or I am missing something? I have thought of finding more equations (elasticity?) but no luck.


I asked two professors to solve this and they could do because they took it for granted that fs2=μsN which I don't seem to understand why should be necessarily the case. After all my equations do have answers if fs2<μsN so what stops it from happening? I mean, how does one conclude from m1 being on verge of slipping to m2 experiencing fsmax? And if the argument is wrong, how to solve this problem?


What I think


I think that it has something to do with elasticity. I have realized that sometimes under/over-determinacies are caused by our assumptions:


enter image description here enter image description here


Example #1 (left): Find internal force in each rod. Under-determinate unless we take elastic deformations into account.



Example #2 (right): Find electric current in the resistor. Over-determinate unless we take internal resistance of batteries into account.


Motivating from these, I tried applying elastic equations:


T=-k\Delta l


Now, I don't know what to do next. My best guess is that I should stop here and say, k\Delta l could be anything, so the problem is unsolvable unless they tell us the value of initial tension in string. Does this make any sense?


Close Related Problem


Skip this last section. I wanted to edit it out but Sammy's answer already points to this.


When writing this question, another indeterminate problem came into my mind which I found related to this one (not sure tough). This is not my main question. Take this system which is in static equilibrium:


enter image description here


What is {f_s}_1 and {f_s}_2?


I think we are facing some similar indeterminacy here.





No comments:

Post a Comment

classical mechanics - Moment of a force about a given axis (Torque) - Scalar or vectorial?

I am studying Statics and saw that: The moment of a force about a given axis (or Torque) is defined by the equation: $M_X = (\vec r \times \...